Who Produced Thinking Like Water ?

​Interview with filmmaker Renea Roberts
​By Jessica Rath

Bill Zeedyk and Renea Roberts take a rainbow moment selfie just outside the Santa Fe Violet Crown, where the docuseries premiered last fall. Image credit: Renea Roberts.

Maybe you saw the announcement: On Friday, 2/28, at 7 pm, Episode I of the docuseries Thinking Like Water will be offered at Ghost Ranch as part of the San Juan-Chama Watershed Partnership’s 2025 Annual Congreso. Filmmaker Renea Roberts (who will be present to answer questions)  is an old friend of mine, and she re-shuffled her schedule to find some time to talk to me – thank you!
 
I love the title. Usually, thinking is understood to be a human prerogative, but the title implies that water and streams and rivers have their own wise ways, that their flow isn’t arbitrary and accidental but follows some inherent intelligence. Plus, the title seems to suggest, when humans listen and open up to the wisdom of the water, the result is positive; beneficial to all.

Albuquerque Wildlife Federation work weekend at the Ring Place Meadow at Valle Vidal, NM. Photo Credit: Renea Roberts

The focus of the documentary is Bill Zeedyk, a naturalist and “River Re-Creator” who uses his concept of Induced Meandering to restore streams and waterways to their original and natural way of flowing. Often they are downcut, a result of  straightening the flow/path, to make cattle grazing or crop irrigation easier – which invariably causes wetlands to vanish and vegetation and wildlife diversity to shrink. What inspired Renea to make a film about Bill, how had they met?
 
As usual, I like to start an interview with a bit of background about the person I’m talking to, and as usual, I learned many new things about a person I’ve known for many years!

Post vane in the foreground at the confluence of Rio Costillo and Comanche Creek at the Valle Vidal, NM. Image credit: Renea Roberts.

​Renea grew up in Georgia, and moved to New Mexico about 20 years ago. She had done some traveling in the Southwest and fell in love with the landscape; she ended up on top of a mesa southwest of Santa Fe,  with a solar powered, off-the-grid house. Living in New Mexico, she quickly realized how valuable water was! But it took a while before she started this documentary.  How did she get into filmmaking, I wondered.
 
Actually, Renea got a Master’s Degree in Community Psychology, a field that interested her because it had the potential for activism: helping groups of people who had been disenfranchised. She learned to think differently about problem solving: to realize that people know the answers to their issues, to be a catalyst for these solutions to come forth. Making documentaries seemed to be a useful way to be an advocate.

Bill’s early years in Mexico. Image credit: Gene Zeedyk.

​​“I wound up taking a few documentary and film classes. And then when I traveled somewhere I just started to shoot different stories. And things moved along in that direction.” I had already experienced  Renea’s dedication to give a voice to disenfranchised communities, to help protect their physical and cultural landscapes, and film them in a captivating manner. She had produced the documentary Rooted Lands about the village of Mora, in New Mexico’s southeast, and their battle against big oil and gas speculators who threatened to bring fracking to the area. It became the first county in the nation to ban hydraulic fracturing. 
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“The project with Bill Zeedyk began after I met a rancher up in the four corners area,” Renea continued. “He told me about Bill and that they were planning a workshop with him, and he asked me if I wanted to join and film the event. So that’s what I did, I followed Bill around for three days while he taught road maintenance crews how to do all kinds of different landscape treatments on roads. I could see what a big impact he would have on the landscape, especially in an area with so much oil and gas extraction.”

Shawn Conner and team construct a Zuni Bowl in western Colorado. Image credit: Renea Roberts.

​​“I think I started shooting in 2017, but it wasn’t a continuous process. I did other things inbetween, and then in 2018 and 2019 I shot a lot, but then came Covid and actual filming was on hold. I was able to watch a lot of the footage I already had and do some transcriptions.”

Renea explained the methodology: “One hour of shot film can easily take 10 hours of ingesting, watching, coding, and editing. It takes a while before you know what  you want to do with it, until you  see a pattern and it all comes  together. It was good that the filming stretched over a long period of time. I could revisit places where restoration work had been done, it allowed me to go  back to those places and see how the landscape was responding and try and capture that feeling on film too.”
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Bill was in his mid- 70s when the filming started, and Renea followed him and his projects. They went to several areas in New Mexico, like the Valles Caldera National Preserve,  Fort Union Ranch, and the Valle Vidal – which is featured in Episode 1.   Filming also occurred in Colorado and Arizona and  includes stories from Texas.   For Bill’s formative time in Mexico she used a lot of photographs, also for the earlier time of his career when he lived on the East Coast and worked from Maine all the way down to North Carolina.

Episode 1 Opening night. Photo Credit: Cristina McCandless.

How did he develop his technique of stream repair, I wanted to know.
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Renea explained: “He had that interest even as a kid; in high school he spent a lot of time outside, it might have been hunting muskrats, things like that. Over time he developed this deep relationship with nature and  that became his  approach. I think he is  trying to lessen the damage we’ve done and let nature take  over using the process she already has. And so his approach is:  first observing, and then finding something incremental, not trying to fix it all at once but just doing a little something and coming back to observe again, learn from it, and keep going. And this approach is more available for more people,  I think. It's as much an art as it is a science.”
 
“Bill's approach inspires   people to have a relationship with nature that many have lost,” Renea continued. “It can be hard work, moving the rocks, or some  big branches,  and  it requires patience and takes time. It means to be on nature's timing. That's part of what  I like about his work.”

Valle Vidal, near confluence. Drone Photo credit: Cristina McCandless

“Bill Zeedyk was a biologist, and he focuses on habitats for all kinds of creatures. He worked with different groups, for example people who are concerned about the Rio Grande Cutthroat Trout along Comanche Creek  in the Valle Vidal.  And there is a large partnership of public groups and private landowners concerned about the threatened Gunnison Sage Grouse up in Colorado, that’s the focus of  Episode Two. And if you help one creature, you're usually helping all of them!”

 Renea added: “Bill’s work kind of connects all the elements. It is about water,  but it's also about the soil, the earth, and the air. The heat evaporates water. All the elements are intertwined.”

Bill Zeedyk in the Valles Caldera National Preserve, returning to observe response to treatments in the Valles Seco area. Photo Credit: Renea Roberts

​“Some  people think that Bill’s work  helps to mitigate climate change. Other people may be resistant to talk about the climate, but they'll talk about drought, or they'll talk about extremes.  Bill is always good about talking  to people with different viewpoints or beliefs, he helps them  to come together at the common element. If you don't want to talk climate change, well, let's talk drought. Bill is so humble, and that helps.”

Post-Fire remediation with the Albuquerque Wildlife Federation in the Rio en Medio area of the Santa Fe National Forest. Photo Credit: Renea Roberts

It must feel so good having completed this five-part series, being done with all the work. And episode I already won an honors award at a film festival. However, maybe now is time for a lot of promotional work, I asked?

Renea was rather sanguine about this.  “Bill’s reaching an older age, and  I don’t have the resources to do something  like a film festival run. It's not just one film,  but five episodes. I am just allowing it to find its own flow, to get out there. Maybe through the people that know about the work first it will  ripple out to more and more people.”

“It is interesting how many people are reaching out from all different walks of life,” she went on. “People I collaborate with mostly  thought that I was too ambitious, making a series. Asking ‘ Are you sure you want to do that?’  But it just always made more sense to me, because there are so many layers to Bill’s work and the whole issue. So, I am glad that I did that. But it was a lot of work. I've definitely had people who helped and colleagues who have helped do drone or film, or other people helping with the web presence, and other  different things. But the bottom line is that I have been juggling a lot of it, editing and doing the bulk, and so then it starts to shift gears. I also  have to find my own meandering pace, because I only have so much energy, and I’m learning as I go.”

But Renea will be at Ghost Ranch this Friday, she assured me. Don’t miss your chance to meet this lovely, creative person!

“I’ll be there, and Steve Vrooman, with Keystone Restoration Ecology and Phil Carter with Albuquerque Wildlife Federation will be there. They've also done a lot of work with Bill. He won’t be there on Friday,  but he’s done work with Ghost Ranch over the years.”
 
Renea talked some more about Ghost Ranch. “They had some really heavy flooding a while back, when some buildings were washed away and the whole landscape changed drastically. We actually did a walk there not that long ago. It was interesting, because I remember filming there for another project, some ten or so years back. I walked to Box Canyon, and I could see how much the flood had cut down. It looked totally different. We walked through some other places and we could see where some restoration work had been done. They had to use machines, because the rocks were much bigger, but it was based on the same philosophy as the hand work, just at a bigger scale.”

Craig Sponholtz and Omar Ore-Giron doing restoration work at Rio Mora Wildlife Refuge. Photo credit: Renea Roberts.

I had one other question, Do you have any new projects, or do you need a bit of time to catch up and recuperate?

“I  definitely need time," Renea told me. “And I think I want that time, and I also just want to be with this current project, while it is  getting out there. There is so much for me to learn. Plus, I want to catch my breath, and just see where this is  going.”  ​

Bill Zeedyk walking in the springtime in Valles Grande at the Valles Caldera National Preserve. Photo Credit: Renea Roberts

This makes sense. What a gargantuan undertaking! But it must have left a lasting impression on Renea, documenting the work of such an inspiring individual over an extended period of time. Bill Zeedyk has become a living legend among conservationists and anybody who strives to repair degraded streams and waterways. “He’s mentored 25+ proteges who have gone on to make their own unique contributions in the field, most with successful businesses to boot. Has field-taught over 3,000+ volunteers. Has master-designed the improvement of over 400+ miles of streams, 4,000+ acres of riparian floodplain areas and many many miles of dirt roads.”
About Bill Zeedyk). People who studied with him have taken his methods to England, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, Australia, Mongolia and China.
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Thank you, Renea, for sharing your work with us. I didn’t know anything about Bill, and I’m grateful that you introduced me to the life and achievements of this outstanding person. If you want to learn more about this exciting project, please visit the website: Thinking Like Water.
 Below is the docuseries trailer: